Communication Clinic: A first kiss denied?

Lately, it seems like I've been neglecting the "communication clinic" articles. Time to fix that.

Here's one that I've taken from an anonymous participant in our Google Group.

He starts with this question:

So after a year of lots of dating [ . . . ], I finally met someone that I think I might like (on eHarmony). At the end of our second date, she walked me to the subway. Now, I've done enough dating at this point where I'm good at telling when it's ok to kiss a girl. And, I've also found that if you don't atleast kiss on a second date, its probably not going anywhere. Anyway, I went to kiss her and she turned to give me her cheek. I was kind of surprirsed. I actually went in again and she turned away and started laughing. She said "I'm sorry..i can be really shy sometimes..it's not because I don't like you". Granted we weren't in the best place (corner of a busy intersection), but I've never met a girl (at least in her 30s) who is that shy."

Actually, it's not that unusual - it falls right within "Mystery Model" observations. (For those uninitiated to this model... a google search should provide plenty of information.) Many women are shy about having their first kiss in a crowded, public place - I actually work to avoid that.

The classic "Mystery model" response is to say, "I understand", try to get isolation, and try again.

Personally, I probably wouldn't have gone for the second try until I had isolation. But, actually, it worked out just fine that he did. Our reader, in fact, got a result that I may not have recieved...

I got home and got a voicemail from her saying that she hoped I got home safely and was sorry that she's so shy sometimes. It was actually very cute and actually made me like her more.

Now, why did she call back so soon?

She's worried that she might have scared our reader away.

In other words, she cares. Which means... she's interested. And she's persuing him.

So, at this point? She's working for his affections now.

And it's hard to screw it up now.

Another thing worth noticing?

The fact that she denied you the kiss... and you want her even more?

Classic "Playing hard to get". And it can work well.

Learn from this. These games work well in reverse too.

But, trust me, from her reaction - I think denying your kiss hurt her just as much (if not more than) it hurt you. And, truth be told, transparent game-playing is a very strong sign of interest.

But, let's move on. I'm also interested in what things created this problem for him.

He's an experienced dater. He probably knows that isolation is a good thing to have when you're going for the first kiss. So... why didn't it happen that way? He typed on:

Usually i just walk my date home and kiss her outside her apt. This girl actually pointed out her building but didn't want me to walk her home cause she says her doorman checks out all the guys she's with (or something like that).

Wait a minute...

You're an adult, walking an adult woman to her apartment.

How would the doorman know that you're not a relative? Or a coworker?

And, frankly, why should she care if the doorman sees her dating someone? It would be kind of weird for a single woman not to have the occasional gentleman caller.

If she's actually serious about that objection? Sounds like she has some damage going on.

I wouldn't have taken that seriously.

How would I have handled it?

Depends on the moment. Maybe I'd have teased her about needing to clear the next date with him. Or said, "I'm just walking you to your apartment... why, do you have other ideas?" Or, played hard to get myself (scrunch in close, look like I might be going in... and "remember" that there's a problem a few times... can be killer.)

Going to a woman's apartment isn't creepy. It's normal. In fact, for me, personally? On a second date, I'd consider it strange for a woman to refuse to let me pick her up and drive (or walk) her to where we're going.

It's only creepy when you make it that way.

And it's premature for me to be inviting her to my apt.

Again, it's only as creepy as you make it. If a woman is interested in me, I'll often say, "I'm sure you've got to be curious to see where I live." Or mention that I need to pick something up from my apartment, and casually tell her to come with me.

It doesn't have to be creepy.

(And the David DeAngelo line, "... but you have to promise to behave yourself" has worked well, too, on the occasions I've used it. When to use it, of course, is always a judgment call.)

There's a stereotypically romantic park w/a great view in my neigborhood, but just suggesting that we walk there is pretty obvious.

Well... she wants to kiss you. So it's okay to be a little obvious.

But, again, this doesn't have to be weird either. Just call her, and say something like, "Hey, it's a nice day outside... why don't I grab some sandwiches, and we can eat at (the park)?"

So, why is it becoming weird?

Some ideas:

• She's playing hard to get. And if she's playing games with you, it's a sign of interest.
• She's got issues. Maybe she's hiding a husband. Or a boyfriend. Or she likes the power of teasing you. Do you want to deal with the issues? Up to you.
• She's picking up on some tension you're giving off, and that's what's making it weird.
• Some combination of these things.

Bottom line? Relax.

Let her be tense.

And when (and if) you decide to go for it - go for it with confidence.

Communication Clinic: When you want it too much...

While we're on the subject of chasing (or not chasing) hot matches, here's a recent set of letters I've received from a reader who'd prefer to remain anonymous.

This writer had previously told me that he was on a good "hot streak". And he looked like he was in the zone - with more action than he could reasonably handle. But this match stopped him dead in his tracks.

The factors here?

• This was a woman who was 10 years younger than him. And it was the first time he'd communicated with someone that young.
• She was hot. He rated her a 7+ out of 10. My bet is on the plus.
• She's a doctor. And that can be intimidating.

And he described his mental frame like this:

"This is the first woman below the age of 30 that I have had respond to an initial communication from me. This latter fact combined with her looks make me want to pursue her just for the learning experience. I have been out with 2 other women this week that are closer to my own age (I am very interested in one of them), but this sub-30 year old barrier is an important psychological milestone for me. I need to know that I can still do this."

Wanting someone this badly (before meeting them) is usually a sign of trouble. Especially someone with a profile he described as "extremely simplistic."

First of all? She wouldn't have responded to your request for communication if she weren't (initially) interested. And, my guess is, there will be others as well. My guess is, if he was able to relax, and let her run her share of the pursuit, this might have worked better. But, unfortunately, he ran into a landmine. She wasn't giving up her phone number - and stopped responding to messages. So, what happened?

Let's look at the open communication letters. She wrote the first one, 18 hours after reading his phase 3 answers:

"Subject: hi
Message: so where do you like to go (a hobby of his)?"

Not much... but it is an advance. And, sometimes, people need a little encouragement before they get "into it". So far, things look okay.

He wrote a response less than an hour later:

Hey [Her Name],

Just a quick note, I'm about to run out the door to meet a friend for dinner...

I most frequently go hop on the [a local place], because it's only a couple of miles from where I live. There's not a lot of challenge or variety there, so when I have more time I like exploring [other places...]. There are some places up around [town where she lives] that I have not been to yet and I hear they are pretty good. Have you been?

I hope you are as funny, active and perky as you sound. If not, well, we may have to break up. ;-)

[Me]

Responding less than an hour later (when she took 18 hours to respond)... that's pretty eager. And not the sign of a guy who needs a little persuasion to let this stranger into his busy life. However, the letter was pretty good, and she may have overlooked the timing. (Maybe it would have been a happy coincidence that she caught him just as he was about to leave?)

Unfortunately, our young jedi's impatience continued. And, when she didn't respond (about 12 hours later), he wrote this message the next morning:

Subject: Good Morning
Message:
Hi [Her Name],

I'm sorry I didn't have a chance to write more last night. I imagine that your job keeps you pretty busy too.

Also, I'm not sure how long you have been doing eH, but the whole internet pen pal thing can get burdensome pretty quick. I was thinking that we could have a quick phone call and see how that goes. I've found it very hard to really get to know someone until you get an actual live voice on the other end. I've probably even got some time tonight if your schedule permits.

Let me know your thoughts...

Have a great day!

[Me]

Oy. This was bad. Let me begin to count the ways. (I can't name them all, unfortunately...)

First of all, he missed an important, but subtle hint about her life. She's a doctor, but she's 27 years old. Let's see, figuring that she had to go at least four years of college, and four years of medical school... I'm figuring she's probably in her second year of residency. Those people are often at work for 36 hour shifts. If he was unable to wait even a single day for a response before even meeting her, she's going to be very worried about how needy he's going to be if they started dating.

Furthermore, responding this soon takes away all of your weapons. Responding this quick means that you're not that busy. And that she doesn't have to work at all to catch you. And messages like this imply that you're not "good enough" to have any real competition for your affections.

So, yeah, he really needed to wait for a response before trying to get her number. And he should have waited awhile before writing the message. The key to my template system is that you're too busy for an email conversation.

Furthermore, the request was in a very supplicative tone. It's like he was asking her for a favor. He's not. The two of them want to talk more, email won't work... this is the natural progression of things. No need for supplication, or elaboration of "what's in it for me." Just, "Hey, I'm too busy to keep up with my email, but I'm thinking we really should talk some more... what's your number?"

So, clearly, the timing was off, and the letter was weak. She stopped responding. In fact, she found time to add more photos to her profile, but not to respond to his letter. Five days later, our young jedi wrote:

Subject: Final Notice
Message:
[Her Name],

I am sending this message to let you know that we are officially breaking up. Sure, we've had some good times, but it's just too much work to keep typing out all of these e-mails. Please don't take it too hard. I'm sure there are at least a couple of other guys out there that are just as witty, clever and handsome as me.

You MAY be able to talk me out of it, but it is going to take some serious begging. ;-)

[Me]

My guess is, she didn't think he was joking.

My advice at this point? Close her, and move on. If his hot streak continues, I'm sure he'll get more hot 20 year olds who are ready to chase him.

But, this time, he'll have the opportunity to make different mistakes.

Communication clinic: Raising the friendly factor

In the comments section, "Uncle Fester" states that a couple of matches have closed him after sending the first open communication letter.

Usually, two closures leaves very little reason to analyze your results. However, in my experience, a woman closing after the first open message is a very rare thing. In fact, since I started my system, it's never happened to me. So, let's see what might be going on here.

Here's one of his messages, in it's entirety.

Hi (her), Finally - past the multiple choice stuff, we can talk like grownups now. Thought I would get off a quick note before heading out to the (local baseball team) game tonight. My weeknights can be somewhat unpredictable, this came together at the last minute.

You mentioned "style" in your Must Have's. Martha Stewart style? Billy Dee Williams style? Hmmm?

It'd be nice to meet or talk sometime but for now, some easier questions... what's the last movie you saw? Are you from this area originally? (Don't worry, almost nobody is) Looking forward to your reply. Off to the game. (me)

I think we have a classic beginner's mistake. I know, because I repeated the same mistake many times. Still do, on occasion.

He's clearly understood one lesson: Don't put her on a pedestal. Make her qualify for you before making any sort of commitment. This may be a change from the way that he pursued women in the past.

But when you're correcting old patterns of behavior, people often overcompensate. And, as a result, they rail about how they're not sold... but miss the "pull" effect of telling her about how you're intrigued.

Let's go over this slowly, shall we?

Here's his pleasantry:

Hi (her), Finally - past the multiple choice stuff, we can talk like grownups now.

As far as pleasantries go... this isn't very pleasant. It dismisses the previous communication, some of which she may have worked hard on answering. That effort does need to be recognized.

If you need to go "double sided" with this statement, you can say something like, "Thanks for going through guided communication with me. I've learned a lot, but, frankly, I'm happy that we can talk like grownups now."

But, frankly, I don't recommend that beginners start with double-sided pleasantries. Start with simple ones, then experiment. That way, you'll know if something isn't working.

Let's move on to the time constraint:

Thought I would get off a quick note before heading out to the (local baseball team) game tonight. My weeknights can be somewhat unpredictable, this came together at the last minute.

Not bad. I think the pickup artist classic of varying the line, "I've got to get back to my friends" might be a little friendlier. It's easier to fault a guy for being a little late for a game than to abandon friends.

Now, "observe and challenge":

You mentioned "style" in your Must Have's. Martha Stewart style? Billy Dee Williams style? Hmmm?

Here's the weakest point. The point of the "observe and challenge" is to pick something interesting that tweaked your interest... and gently challenge her to see if she's for real. But this may come off as challenging the character of a woman for putting something down as a "must-have". So, again, she may be feeling dismissed.

If you are a stylish guy, I might make the similarity more apparent. For example: Hey, I'm glad you appreciate a sense of style. Unless you think that those "I'm with stupid" T-shirts are still stylish... in which case... well... (Okay, I'm not fashion-conscious enough to come up with a subtler fashion faux-pas. But, you get the idea.)

Basically, pick something she likes to talk about, and force her to brag a little more. Or, say that she's not an obsessed fan.

On to planting seeds / asking questions...

It'd be nice to meet or talk sometime but for now, some easier questions... what's the last movie you saw? Are you from this area originally? (Don't worry, almost nobody is)

I'd prefer, "It might be nice" to "It'd be nice". It doesn't put as much pressure on.

I'd also move away from "easier" to "more fun" questions. "Easier" implies you're lowering your standards.

Subtle points? Maybe.

Looking forward to your reply. Off to the game. (me)

In the earlier context... you're fine.

In short, you have standards... and you're not sold yet. But you are appreciating what you've learned, so you're continuing the process.

And if you've shown promise in the earlier phases... she should feel happy about that prospect.

Tomorrow's column will also be late... but I've reached a very good turning point in my life. And I feel a rant coming on...